Thread: Primarchs and Legion Datasheets

Originally Posted by Warmaster_John

I like this, a lot, and the name is awesome. I like that it's not just Artificer Armor+Iron Halo with a new name, and the teleporting thing is cool -- although you could easily separate this part and call it a Personal Teleporter, as I don't know if all Primarchs would use it (*cough*Leman Russ*cough*)

Thanks. And Russ is getting his own, unique sort of armor. Russ gets a lot unique stuff. My only justification is he is Russ.

Originally Posted by Son of Sanguinius

Something else to ponder.

I've given standard Armor and Bolt weapons for Primarchs, but what about swords?

Roboute, Lion, Vulkan, Jaghatai, Horus, and probably others have all been described as using swords. Should we make them as simple master-crafted power weapons? Do we make them all into relic blades? Do we give them new rules?

My inclination is master-crafted power weapon that re-rolls to wound and adds an additional d6 to armor penetration.

Well you could use a rule I used for the Avatar in my fandex.

Use the primarch sword one handed and get X attacks, use it two handed and get +Y strength and less attacks.

So for arguments sake, we go with a Mechanicus Perfecta power weapon. It adds 1D6 to armour penetration and rerolls to hit and wound rolls. Used one handed it grants +2 Attacks (in place of the normal +1 for two ccws), used two handed it grants +2 strength.

So they can go horde killing (smiting orks) or MC killing (slaying wraithlords).

So if a primarch is base S5 A4, he can either strike at S7 A4 or S5 A6. Especially good for those dramatic flying leaps onto land raiders to smite them with one fell swing.

I gave it to the Avatar as a representation of his ability to choose the perfect combat technique for the enemy, flurry of blows or mighty strikes. I think it appropriate that a primarch possesses a similar ability.

Just an idea.

Originally Posted by Hellebore

Well you could use a rule I used for the Avatar in my fandex.

Use the primarch sword one handed and get X attacks, use it two handed and get +Y strength and less attacks.

So for arguments sake, we go with a Mechanicus Perfecta power weapon. It adds 1D6 to armour penetration and rerolls to hit and wound rolls. Used one handed it grants +2 Attacks (in place of the normal +1 for two ccws), used two handed it grants +2 strength.

So they can go horde killing (smiting orks) or MC killing (slaying wraithlords).

So if a primarch is base S5 A4, he can either strike at S7 A4 or S5 A6. Especially good for those dramatic flying leaps onto land raiders to smite them with one fell swing.

I gave it to the Avatar as a representation of his ability to choose the perfect combat technique for the enemy, flurry of blows or mighty strikes. I think it appropriate that a primarch possesses a similar ability.

Just an idea.

Damn good idea.

So...how about this:

Eversor Lamina
This is a master-crafted power weapon that can be wielded one-handed or two-handed. If one-handed, the wielder strikes with two additional attacks. If two-handed, the wielder strikes at +2 Strength and adds an additional D6 to armor penetration rolls. You must decide which method the Primarch is using at the start of each assault phase.

Sounds like a plan to me.

EDIT: How many Primarchs would be using this weapon? I'd be tempted to make it a generic 'primarch weapon' that all primarchs use, thus representing all the myriad types of weapons they have, but it would reduce the uniqueness between them downt to some stat differences and a special rule here or there...

Hellebore

Originally Posted by Hellebore

Sounds like a plan to me.

EDIT: How many Primarchs would be using this weapon? I'd be tempted to make it a generic 'primarch weapon' that all primarchs use, thus representing all the myriad types of weapons they have, but it would reduce the uniqueness between them downt to some stat differences and a special rule here or there...

Hellebore

That is exactly what I intend to do, which occasional modifications.

So the rule will be at the front, and the entries will have something like this.

Sword of Dorn
This is an Eversor Lamina that may only be used two-handed and re-rolls all failed to wound rolls.

Mjalnar
This is an Eversor Lamina that always wounds Demons on a roll to wound of 2+.

Etc.

I hope that Aaron Dembski-Bowden sees this at some point.

KONRAD CURZE, PRIMARCH OF THE NIGHT LORDS

WS- 7; BS- 6; S- 5; T- 5; W- 4; I- 7; A- 5; Ld- 10

POINTS
400

UNIT TYPE
Infantry (Unique)

WARGEAR
Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades

Heart of Darkness: (See what I did there? ) This is an Aegis Imperator suit that confers the Stealth special rule and forces all shooting at Konrad to be done under the effects of the Night Fighting rules. If the Night Fighting rules are already in effect, range results are halved.

Midnight Talons: These count as pair of master-crafted lightning claws that strike with +2 Attacks and the Rending special rule.

SPECIAL RULES
Independent Character; Fearless; Son of the Emperor; Father of the Legion; Scout

The Cursed Vision: Konrad counts as a psyker in all respects. If you include him in your army, you may redeploy D3 of your units before the start of the game. At the start of the game, Konrad must take a Leadership test. If he fails this test, he becomes subject to the Rage, Furious Charge, and Counter-Attack special rules for the remainder of the game.

Creature of Dreaded Night: Konrad has the Fear the Darkness, Shackle Soul, Transfixing Gaze, and Wings of Sanguinius psychic powers. He may use up to two of these powers per turn and automatically passes the psychic tests to use them.

Fear is Our Weapon: Konrad is a Headquarters choice for a Blood Angels army. All Morale checks and Leadership tests caused by Konrad are taken with a -1 Leadership penalty, which is cumulative with other Leadership modifiers.



Yes, those Blood Angels. Why? Because 1) you get Assault Squads as Troops and Librarians that have Fear the Darkness, and 2) I've always liked the idea that Konrad didn't have total control over the barbarity of his Legion, which Red Thirst reflects well.

Alright, gotcha.

So the primarch template is the armour, the weapon, the bolter, the son of the emperor and the statline.

Then each primarch has a few specific rules peculiar to them. That sonds pretty good to me.

You might want to edit Curze's statline - he apparently has 12 attacks...

I reckon this is a great thing you're putting together. My aforementioned 'daemon prince' template never really got finished and this is pretty much what I wanted to do with them.

Well done.

Hellebore

Originally Posted by Hellebore

So the primarch template is the armour, the weapon, the bolter, the son of the emperor and the statline.

Yes, but include Father of the Legion in there too.

Originally Posted by Hellebore

You might want to edit Curze's statline - he apparently has 12 attacks...

Right. Thanks.

Originally Posted by Hellebore

I reckon this is a great thing you're putting together. My aforementioned 'daemon prince' template never really got finished and this is pretty much what I wanted to do with them.

Well done.

Hellebore

Many thanks. I'll be starting a Demon Primarchs thread tonight or tomorrow as well, so don't throw your Demon Prince ideas away just yet. They will be in the same document as the...ahem..."normal" Primarchs, but it would be too convoluted to start them in this thread.

good job on Konrad. maybe he should confer infiltrate/scout to units in place of combat tactics or something like that?

Konrad's boys don't get Combat Tactics. He uses Codex: Blood Angels.

Who do we have left?

Mortarion of the Death Guard
Jaghati Khan of the White Scars
Perturabo of the Iron Warriors
Fulgrim of the Emperor's Children

i think

I've got versions for all of them, but remember we are making something to agree on. If you have ideas for any Primarchs, post them. If we like them, I can always update the document. Then there are the Legion Datasheets to be considered too. Besides, I have to update the ones we've done to fit the new rules and wargear anyway.

Here's my idea for Mortarion.

MORTARION, PRIMARCH OF THE DEATH GUARD

WS- 7; BS- 6; S- 5; T- 5; W- 4; I- 7; A- 4; Ld- 10

POINTS
400

UNIT TYPE
Infantry (Unique)

WARGEAR
Aegis Imperator; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades

Lantern: This is a ranged weapon that uses the following profile-
. . .Rng: Template. . .Str: 6. . .AP: 3. . .Type: Assault 1

Manreaper: This is an Eversor Lamina that can only be used two-handed. Instead of attacking normally, you may have Mortarion make a single special attack in an assault that causes one automatic hit on all models in base contact.


SPECIAL RULES
Independent Character; Fearless; Son of the Emperor; Father of the Legion

Indomitable: Mortarion may roll for Feel No Pain against wounds caused by AP 1 or AP 2 weapons.

The Grim Reaper: All enemy Morale checks taken within 12” of Mortarion are taken with a -2 Leadership penalty.

Stand Your Ground: If you include Mortarion in your army, all of your units with the Combat Tactics special rule replace it with the Feel No Pain special rule. Tactical Squads with dedicated transports may be taken as Troops and/or Fast Attack choices.


I feel this needs a tad more flavor though.

Hmmm heres a suggestion from other primarch rules ive seen. How about making the armor confer a 1+ armor save? A roll of 1 still fails however it gives the primarch some protection vs ap2 weapons also (Im thinking plasma and lascannon like weapons mainly). It could offset the relatively low invuln save,

EDIT: I was under the impression the lantern was a plasma weapon...

Originally Posted by The Custodian

Hmmm heres a suggestion from other primarch rules ive seen. How about making the armor confer a 1+ armor save? A roll of 1 still fails however it gives the primarch some protection vs ap2 weapons also (Im thinking plasma and lascannon like weapons mainly). It could offset the relatively low invuln save,

Nothing else in the game has that kind of armor save, and it would effectively give a 2+ invulnerable save to almost every weapon in the game. Way, way too powerful. Still though, keep it up. The more ideas, the merrier.

Originally Posted by The Custodian

EDIT: I was under the impression the lantern was a plasma weapon...

I'll have to dig up FotE to find out. I know it's an energy weapon, not a flame weapon, but it seemed to be very short range and able to incinerate swathes, if I remember correctly.

I think a good chunk of the sheets done on the first few pages might need updated with all of the fancy stuff that is given to all primarchs base IE aegis armor and whatnot.
Fulgrim needs a thunderfist for punching avatars in the head!

Originally Posted by gwarsh41

I think a good chunk of the sheets done on the first few pages might need updated with all of the fancy stuff that is given to all primarchs base IE aegis armor and whatnot.

Indeed. I'm in the process of doing that now.

Originally Posted by gwarsh41

Fulgrim needs a thunderfist for punching avatars in the head!

If I'm to stick with the background, the Avatar needs rules like this-

WS- 3; BS- 0; S- 3; T- 3; W- 1; I- 4; A- 2; Ld- 2

THE WAILING DOOM: At the start of your turn, the Avatar must take a Leadership test. If he fails, he cannot do anything because his sword won't shut up.

THE BLOODY-HANDED ONE: The Avatar has the following special rules- Vulnerable to Blasts, Vulnerable to Independent Characters, Vulnerable to Tanks, Vulnerable to Authors

THE GOD OF WAR: If your opponent places Marneus Calgar on the table for any reason, the Avatar is removed as a casualty and you surrender an Objective and 6 kill points to your opponent.

@SoS - Some thoughts on Mortarion. Sounds good, you might want to look at these ideas as well:
>Mortarion is said to have had brass globes filled with the poisonus gases of his homeworld
>Deathshroud - Mortarions Bodyguard armed with Manreapers
>Swap ATSKNF for FnP and Relentless. However only Devastator squads and Terminators may take heavy weapons - for other units where this is an option it maybe replaced by a second special weapon.
>In the early days, the DG weren't reknowned for vehicle assaults, they were more known for being footsloggers

Originally Posted by Son of Sanguinius

Indeed. I'm in the process of doing that now.


If I'm to stick with the background, the Avatar needs rules like this-

THE BLOODY-HANDED ONE: The Avatar has the following special rules- Vulnerable to Blasts, Vulnerable to Independent Characters, Vulnerable to Tanks, Vulnerable to Authors

You almost made me laugh out loud in class!
Bloodthirster in fantasy got the same deal in the gotrek and felix books.

And yay for updating the previous primarchs.

Originally Posted by yabbadabba

@SoS - Some thoughts on Mortarion. Sounds good, you might want to look at these ideas as well:
>Mortarion is said to have had brass globes filled with the poisonus gases of his homeworld
>Deathshroud - Mortarions Bodyguard armed with Manreapers
>Swap ATSKNF for FnP and Relentless. However only Devastator squads and Terminators may take heavy weapons - for other units where this is an option it maybe replaced by a second special weapon.
>In the early days, the DG weren't reknowned for vehicle assaults, they were more known for being footsloggers

1) Will add the globes. Completely forgot about those.
2) Deathshroud will definitely be included when we get around to the bodyguards. In fact, you can start it if you'd like.
3) Eh...I'm very hesitant to drop ATSKNF for anything but Fearless. That said, Fearless and Relentless instead of ATSNKF and Combat Tactics would be pretty awesome.
4) I got that rule from the Death Guard list in CSM 3.5

Originally Posted by gwarsh41

You almost made me laugh out loud in class!

And yay for updating the previous primarchs.

Shame on you for loling in class. Your students would be ashamed.

Yes, I looked at the hobo website.